Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01 : CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Ald'Al Z7- V. 24 Dec 85 ALGERIA FLN, Polisario Officials Hold 22 Dec Talks LD231033 Algiers Domestic Service in Arabic 0600 GMT 23 Dec 85 TH AFRICA Q I [Excerpts] [Al-Qadhdhafi] A delegation from Sanaa is present; it represents [word indistinct] the establishment of a Jamahiriyah system and an attempt in North Yemen to establish a people's system or people's authority. [applause and chanting] [Text] Rabeh Bitat, FLN Political Bureau membei nd chairman of the People's National Assembly, yesterday reived Mahfoud Ali Beida, Polisario Executive Committee mem er and chairman of the Polisario Foreign Relations and Inforrt}ation Committee, who was accompanied by Mansour Omar,/SADR minister of foreign affairs, and Mohamed Salem Ould Sadek, SADR Presidency secretary general. They reviewed the results of the Polisario's sixth congress, recent devel?pments in the Sahran people's struggle against Moroccan occupation, and successes and victories achieved at the domestic/and diplomatic levels. Brother Bitat sent a congratulatory, message to Mohamed Ould M'Barek Ould Rahal on his election as chairman of the Saharan Bendjedid Receives Mali rt'esident's Envoy, Message LD241112 Algiers APS in English 1023 GMT 24 Dec 85 [Text] Algiers, 24/12/85 ZAPS) - President Chadli Bendjedid, received Monday JibuOrallo, the Malian state minister in charge of the industrial and tourism development and special envoy of the Malian president, Moussa Traore. Diallo handed a message to PresidenjrChadli Bendjedid from the Malian head of state. ,p France's Dufoix Meets Bendjedid, Departs LD231429 Al ers APS in English 1349 GMT 23 Dec 85 [Text] AlgielDec 85 (aps) - President Chadli Bendjedid audienced1here Monday French Minister of Social Affairs and National Aolidarity Mrs Georgina Dufoix who handed him a message from French President Francois Mitterrand. Mrs Geor- gina D/foix left Algiers today after a two day official visit to Algie Va. In a declaration to the press, Mrs Dufoix qualified her visit s good and said it will have a great impact. She also un rlined that the French Government is doing its best to fight ra ism and give the Algerian community more dignity and security. LIBYA 13rl - ~1 Al-Qadhdhafi Addresses General People's Congress LD191609 Tripoli Domestic Service in Arabic 0857 GMT 19 Dec 85 [Speech at Libyan General People's Congress by Colonel Mu'ammar dhdhafi; chairman of the Revolution Com- man ouncil, on the subject of the draft agenda for the 23 December Basic People's Congresses; monitored in progress - live from Tripoli] First of all, we welcome this Yemeni delegation headed by Dr Ahmad al-Asbahi, secretary of the General People's Congress Permanent secretariat. [applause] In fact, Yemen is naturally a Jamahiriyah, by its nature. Basically, its path is a Jamahiriyah path. It is well known that Yemen is the origin of the Arab race; it supplied the Arab homeland with the most important Arab migrations prior to Islam which the Romans called Berber and who are now found in North Africa. Most of them are found in Morocco, the Canary Islands, and Algeria and a few in (?Jabal Nifusah) and some oases like (?Siwah) and (?Awjalah). These migrations were supplied to us by Yemen and south of the Arab peninsula more than 10,000 thousand years ago. The pre-Islamic migrations populated North Africa. However, after they were driven away from the coastal areas by the Romans, they took refuge in the mountains and the Romans called them Berber. Those called Berber constitute the very old Arab migrations supplied to us by Yemen; the origin of the Arab race. It is the human storage of Arabs. It still is the human force in the Arab peninsula, which is considered almost devoid of inhabitants except for Yemen. Yemen, in fact, is the north [word indistinct]; Yemen is the one which has sanaa as its capital. As a result of colonialism, another situation developed witht he establishment of another state in South Yemen and a state in North Yemen. The Canary Islands, which belong to Spain, and are claimed by Africa to be African islands, are called the Al-Khalidat Islands in Arabic. Their inhabitants [words indistinct]. They constitute the last of the Arab migrations to North Africa and after that to these islands [words indistinct], including Malta whose inhabi- tants are African as is well known. Yemen is originally a Jama- hiriyah by its nature; the people are armed by their nature and the authority is with tribes. the tribes are similar to people's congresses which means they are people's tribal congresses. [Words indistinct] Yemen did not submit to any foreign colonial- ism; it could not subjugate it because the people are armed and the authority is in people's hand. Yemen is closer to the Janajiriyah system, by its nature, than any other state. We welcome them and thank them and brother 'Ali 'Abdallah Salih who sent these brothers. [applause] They have honored us with their presence and their interest in what is happening in this part of the Arab land. They have come to attend part of the people's congresses' meetings. It is a coincidence that they have come to the general people's congress meeting today. There may be [word indistinct] in Yemen to know how people's congresses are formed. Let us assume that we who are present in this hall are inhabitants of this region; all the inhabitants of this region. We, men and women, are meeting in this hall and formed a basic people's congress; [word indistinct] from the base which is (?outside) the people's congress. There will be elections and all citizens in this region met in this basic people's congress. The first thing they did was choose a secretariat of this congress. [passage indistinct] This is how selection is made; for example, so and so would [words indistinct]. This is the secretariat of the congress. Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 This is in the people's congress, basic people's congress or general people's congress or municipality congresses; in the same way. Here we have the secretariat of the congress. Role of Basic People's Congresses The inhabitants of the region have thus formed a basic people's congress [words indistinct]. They choose a secretariat to admin- ister the congress; this is the secretariat of the congress. Now the people's congress is formed; the authority and decisionmaking belongs to it. However, who implements decisions which are made? There is need for a people's committee which will imple- ment the decisions of the people's congress [words indistinct]. This group will be chosen through discussions within the General People's Congress. This is how things will happen: Discussions will be held on this person or that person; one will be called useful, another useless; there will be objections to someone; he would then be rejected; another person would be blessed with hands up, by free debate. If someone has anything against any candidate, then he would say: I have an objection; this person would not be suitable to be a member of a People's Committee. This would continue until all discussions result in the election of the People's Committee. This is how a People's Committee should be. This will be the model for the People's Congress, its secretariat and the people's committees. This will be at the grassroots level, at the municipality level, and at the Jamahiriyah level; that is, the General People's Congress. All this should occur at any basic People's Congress. The population will meet, and form the Basic People's Congress. They will choose a secretariat; then they will choose a People's Committee [word indistinct]. Any decision issued at the level of this region where there is a population, is.of interest to the population of this region. The Congress in question would issue the decision because it would be in charge, and would be administered by the People's Committee. This People's Com- mittce is accountable to the People's Congress, and the latter may bring it to account. At any of its meetings, the congress may bring the Committee to account. This also concerns the Secretariat, [word indistinct] the administration of the congress, and then the congress would replace it. Likewise, should the People's Committee fail, the congress will replace it. If some members of the Committee fail, then the congress will replace them, or some of them, etc. [passage omit- ted: al-Qadhdhafi asks secretaries present to raise hands and be counted; lie recalls their functions]. There are 1,443 Basic People's Congresses [BFC] throughout the Jamahiriyah. This means that the entire population of Libya is deivided into 1,443 Basic People's Congresses. All the pop- ulation, men and women. Any Libyan coming of age becomes a member of the BPC. So now, 1,443 congress secretaries from all over the Jamahiriyah are meeting. They are here to decide, but they have brought with them the decisions of (?local) congresses. The People's Congresses are sovereign. They issue decisions and laws in the fields of politics, (?organization), peace, and war; while the People's Committees administer the policies and are accountable to their own congresses. Then all the Jamahiriyah delegates meet at this encounter. All congress delegates coming a NORTH AFRICA from the remotest areas of the Jamahiriyah meet here, together with the secretaries of the People's Committees; in addition, the secretaries of the General Congresses involving producers, man- ufacturers, professionals, workers, and farmers. This is in addi- tion to the workers, farmers, manufacturers, professionals, students, teachers, and others who are members of the Basic People's Congresses. These are the foundations of People's Congresses and People's Committees; the foundation of the Jamahiriyah regime. A people formed this way possess everything: power and (?wealth). The government would end; the citizen would receive arms training; he would bear arms, get to know them, and possesses them. Citizens would then go on patrol and be in charge of guarding the borders [words indistinct]; the people would not need an army; the Army would disappear. Wealth would go back to the people. [words indistinct]. There is one point that I would like to explain for the second time: people's security: Every citizen, in accordance with the law issued by the People's Congresses, man or woman, can be a member of the People's Security. This is in accordance with the law, taking into account age and [word indistinct]. If people come forward to become members of the People's Security, then the masses will have assured their mission, and the police would disappear. [words indistinct], a local People's Security assumed by citizens in every village, every town, every street. In such a case, there would be no need for anything at the Jamahiriyah level. Concerning justice, it is the same thing: Courts exist locally which might become temporary; I mean, its members could be temporary, with a new group becoming court members for a given period. It would not be necessary for one to be a law graduate to become a judge or a court member. Any five people, agreed upon by people, could form a court and deal with any case and issue judgments, even death penalties, if death penalties were to remain. If this occurs, the Secretariat for Justice would spontaneously disappear. [Words indistinct] would assume the security tasks itself, includ- ing traffic, fire services, criminal investigations, intelligence, etc. Citizens would assume this. Thus, the Secretariat of Justice would spontaneously disappear. In fact, these things resemble what was happening in old days in Yemen, tasks assumed by the Shaykh or the Islamic jurisprudence man. Regarding the story of purging the apparatuses of justice and people's security, and reviewing the laws governing them - well, I do not know what is meant by this, and I am not going to discuss them at all; let those who have laid them down discuss them. It is their business. I do not know what is in them. [Passage indistinct]. Some people believe that by raising the issue of promoting cattle breeding, they will be provided with camels, sheep, poultry, and feed. Well, it is up to you and all Libyans to save money from Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 other things, to cut spending on clothes or food and supply your animals with feed, sheds, and veterinary services. Do not think that camels and livestock will come out of nowhere to satisfy your request. If you want to expand in some area, then you should initiate cuts on something else. Cut spending on something and expand elsewhere. The budget is here before you. If you decide to expand in the domain of livestock, then allocate to it the biggest amount from the budget, and deduct the same amount from other fields and other needs. This is the situation. This is how the bueget goes, and no one can make further demands for camels, livestock, and poultry. There can be no further demands. There are figures here in front of you on the budget that could be adopted in 1986. You can distribute it as you wish on animals, farming, industry, schools, tourism, sweets, or football. [Unidentified speaker] Excuse me, leader. As far as the munici- pality of Al-Fatih is concerned, the point on the agenda concern- ing expansion in poultry and camel breeding is a fundamental point that should be raised on this occasion, with the leader present: The fundamental points presented in the agenda are a problem of income. The problem is one of administration, no more, and no less. The clauses presented or repeated by the Secretariat of the General People's Congress, whether regarding full mobilization, expansion, etc., indicate shortcomings in the administration process, because the fact is that now most projects are interrupted, and they lack financing. So people are. now repeating their previous decisions, saying: Our decisions have not been carried out. Expanding is quite a good idea, since there should be self- sufficiency, whether at the municipal level or that at the Jama- hiriyah level. However, the problem is one of income, and implementation is completely nonexistent. [AI-Qadhdhafi, interrupting] What Basic Congress do you repre- sent? [Unidentified speaker] Qasr 'Abd al-Jalil, Municipality of Al- Fatih. [Al-Qadhdhafi, addressing himself to Dr Miftah al-Usta'Umar, secretary of the General People's Congress, who is present] Doctor, this Basic Congress will prepare an explanatory memo- randum concerning poultry [words indistinct] [Unidentified speaker] Thanks. Aziziyah, Sirte, and Tripoli. The study of the problem of drinking water was raised by the Basic People's Congresses in the Bin Jawwad area, and is the sole item that has reached us in the Municipality of Sirte. The Bin Jawwad area depends on a desalination plant that has broken down more than once, and as of now its production falls short of accommodating all the region with drinking water. Therefore, the Basic People's Congresses' masses, who have already adopted this decision: Asking for help, are stressing their previous suggestions that the services concerned or the Electricity Board should tackle this problem and work out fundamental and appropriate solutions to the drinking water problem. On the other hand, regarding seawater pollution, it is known that the Municipality of Sirte is one of the municipalities where oil ports are to be found, and these ports have caused the pollution of the beach with oil residues from returning tankers... [Al-Qadhdhafi, interrupting] What do you want? What do you want the people to do? [Unidentified speaker] What we want is a study by the General People's Committee for Utilities to resolve the drinking water problem in the Bin Jawwad area, and also the preparation of a technical study to tackle seawater pollution. [Al-Qadhdhafi] What I would like to say to you is that the people's congress, and not the people's committee are in charge of formulating the memorandums. Furthermore, you could be deceived in the people's congress because when you ask [for something] in a word, this word goes up to the people's committee that is responsible for implementation and which itself for- mulates law and makes decisions; it formulates it in the manner it wants. You have made certain demands and the people's committees turned them into memorandums. Some of them have been miscarried and others the committees have formulates in a certain way; the committee probably felt that it can not imple- ment this project as such, so it (?rearranged it). Then it sends the memorandum, and you start discussing it. Instead of using the committee, deliberate your own memorandum and try to find a way to implement it. The people's congress sits to discuss the memorandum the committee addressed to it. There is no alter- native but for the people's committees to listen to what the people's congress have to say. Any such issue proposed by a people's congress must be formulated into a memorandum at the present time and before the convening of the [basic]people's congress. The people's committees then have to receive these memorandums and sit down to discuss them. Drinking Water [AI-Qadhdhafi] Accommodation and housing; study of the prob- lem of drinking water and the introduction of rules for water consumption, and the issue of seawater pollution. Let the person who presented these items explain them to us. Who presented them? [Unidentified speaker] Regarding the sector of accommodation and housing, a study of the problem of drinking water and the introduction of consumption rules: These points were raised by congresses in Zlitin, Binghazi, and Anniqat al-Khams, al- Tell us what you want with the drinking water. Let it be clear. Someone appears from (Bin Juwwad) saying that the desalination plant is out of order, for example. That is it. The issue could be referred to the municipality of (Bin Juwwad) and Sirte. This [Bin Juwwad] was, excuse me, an Italian drinking bar, expanded by few exploitative shops, without any production or anything. Goods are imported from outside for the shops, and some cars pass by carrying some exploitative foreigner seeking a petrol station so that he can buy some petrol and find a cafe. This is (Bin Juwwad) originally; now you tell me that it is a city with 250,000 people. From the beginning it was not designed to be such. Where is science and where is the committee that is Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 NORTH AFRICA responsible and that signed to say that (Bin Juwwad) is a place for a city and that it should expand to 250,000, to 500,000, and to I million; or that said that Tubruq is a city. Zuwwarah will be a city, Sirte Valley will be a city and Ajdabia will be a city. Ajdabia is a station for caravans which you have turned into a city after the revolution. Now we have to search for water for them. Since the beginning, experts have decided that it cannot be a city. Tubruq, which you are talking about, how many were in it? Ten houses of smugglers. Now it is a city with 500,000 people, and you are asking for drinking water and (?machinery) for it. From where? Science, experts, and the country have not decided that this will be a city. That is it. Whoever built in it shoulders his responsibility. Let it be short of even free water [hurr]. If your mood prompts you to live in this place, you can. However, we have no electricity, water, or supplies to bring to you, nor a transport system nor telephone. When you decide and tell the experts that a place is a city to be founded because water is available, as well as people and sources for living, then we will shoulder its responsibility. However, when you see a place that was a cafe before the revolution with some shops selling to bypassing cars, and because you have money you bring trucks loaded with cement and build houses, and bring supplies from other cities, then it becomes a city and you ask for water. From where can we bring you water? When the Libyan people receive a memorandum from (Bin Juwwad) in this form, they can argue that we had not decided that (Bin Juwwad) is a city liable to expansion, and it is not originally a city. When a memorandum comes from Tripoli, the Libyan people can say Tubruq is not a city and has no viability at all and we have no water. All of its life it was not a (word indistinct]; and even if it was destroyed tomorrow by Egyptian bombs, you would have to shoulder the responsibvility. I am not responsible for any building in Tubruq. Tubruq at any hour could be turned into barracks and trenches, missiles firing and bombs shelling. It will be saved from no calamity. Originally, this is a battlefield. Who said that Tubruq is a city? Count the houses that were in Tubruq before the revolution. Even there were some houses before the revolution; the defunct regime was deceiving you. Either you have water or a source for living [or not], [words indistinct] only distributed a few houses, ten or twenty. When I came after the revolution I asked: Where does water come from to you? They said we get it from Sirte. Where do supplies come from? They come from Benighazi. Why are you living here? one of them said he was a director. Director of who? Director of those people. So, in order to make him a director, they brought him people! And you? He said I am the doorman for the director in the directorate. The other, what are you doing here? He said I am the director's clerk. The other, what are you doing here? He said, I am managing the petrol station. The other, what are you doing? He said, I run the shop for teh benefit of those passing by. Then I said to them: Then you are just making money and you want to manage a city here. There is no city. The people's committee in charge of implementing this resolution are to fix the charges about the consumption of water as fol- ? lows: a charge of 50 dirhams shall be made per cubic meter for a maximum consumption of 25 cubic meters a month. A charge of 200 dirhams shall be made for every cubic metre of consump- tion over the maximum level. [words indistinct] If you want to economize in drinking water consumption, the one who can consume I cubic meter pays 50 dirhams in charges. If one consumes more than 50, then he pays 200 dirhams. [words indistinct] that is it. Be responsible for yourselves and economize in drinking water consumption. This committee is good and this is correct. Well, there is a memorandum, law, or something like this, concerning the point of drinking water. Let the people's con- gresses discuss them [word indistinct]. These are housing and amenities, the [word indistinct] of education, work, study, and training in the positions of production. In the general mobiliza- tion there is nothing of this kind, work, study, and training at the positions of production. This resolution accepted [words indis- tinct]. Well, if this [word indistinct], this means that tomorrow a secondary school or a teachers institute is transferred to Jabal Hasan, lives in tents, trains him on the use of weapons, studies there and produces, drills wells, or lays down the pipes [words indistinct]. The students should not say tomorrow: No we are not going there, or their parents say, our sons will not go there. The teachers should not say: No we are not ready to live in a tent, and the boys say we will not live in a tent. This is what work, study, and training in the positions of production means. If you decide it, its implementation begins in this way. You have already decided on general mobilization. Tomorrow we take a university college and put it in another place, in tin huts, tents, or cottages. Put it at [word indistinct] today you will palm tree, train on arms, study. [as heard] This is study, training, and work at the sites of production. [words indistinct] An administra- tion is transferred, a company is transferred, an establishment is transferred, a secretariat is transferred, an army camp is transferred [words indistinct). This is the work, study, and training at the production sites. Where there is a production site, people transfer. If they are studying, they will study there; if they train on arms, they will train there. This is what this phrase means. [words indistinct] This should be submitted to the people's conferences and if it is decided upon, then no one will be able to oppose it. If you do not want it, do not approve it. This is coming from the majority of the municipalities, well then (?it should be decided at the level of each municipality). What else doctor? This should be submitted to the people's conferences in accordance with the explanation I have just given. Expansion of the technical institutions and the concentration on vocational education within the context of the new educational structure: This was not approved before? [passage indistinct] No this also was not approved and was demanded by 27 conferences in Benghazi, 2 conferences in (Ghiryan), (19?) conferences in Ghadamis, 4 conferences in (Marzaq), 5 conferences in [words indistinct] and 21 conferences in Tripoli. [passage indistinct] I believe that the expansion of technical institutions was approved a long time ago, the expansion of the technical education base. But, the conferences perhaps [words indistinct] [Unidentified speaker] With regard to the educational structure, Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 ? w in accordance with its approval in the previous session, some municipalities, according to their capabilities, have begun to implement it and other municipalities have not begun implement- ing it until now. The word expansion indicates that this indeed has been implemented, but theire is a need to expand it. In fact, this resolution was made at the previous session, and I believe that its repetition means a repetition [words indistinct]. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Well this is a repetition then. Communications and maritime transport: the reshaping of the Libyan Arab Airlines and maritime transport. I do not understand what this means. Planning and the economy; the unification of the importa- tion bodies [words indistinct] A simple explanation of the unification of the importation bodies: There are basic people's committees. (?Their secretaries) consti- tute non-basic people's committees at the municipality level. Then there are general people's congresses which consist of the secretaries of the people's committees in these municipalities. In the end, a general people's committee should be formed, a qualitative, specialist committee. Let us suppose it specializes in economics and external trade. [passage indistinct] The general people's committee for the economy, the general people's com- mittee for economics and external trade, some of this kind. But inside the Jamahiriyah there are dozens of companies, establish- ments, and bodies which wants to import. One imports raw materials for his factory, another imports a machine for his factory, one imports clothes, one imports sheep, one imports [word indistinct], one imports olive oil, one imports henna, one imports bananas, one imports sweets, one imports [words indis- tinct], all the things useful to society, with which we confront America and Israel. All these parties which import, now each one of them submits a request to the central bank to transfer money from my budget for abroad to buy with them (?Christmas trees); another demands money to buy [word indistinct] on the occasion of the Muslim's Christmas, (?the first for the Christians and the second for the Muslims); another requests a money for the purchase of sweets; another wants money to buy toys with the American flag on them. This way the bank receives requests; how many sides import [word indistinct] There are 70, 80, 90 establishments, companies, parties, all have submitted requests to the central bank for money transfers [words indistinct]. Each side belongs to a certain secretariat; all the parties , establishments, belong to a certain secretariat. They should submit their requests to their secretariats [words indis- tinct] until all the secretariats complete their formulations. They transfer them to [word indistinct] specialist, to the general peo- ple's committee for importation and external trade, for instance, and say that these are all the requests of the parties which (?belong to us). The transfer is done in the name of the secretar- iats. In other words, (?it) receives three, four requests, four secretariats, five secretariats, each secretariat is followed by 20 establishments [words indistinct] The committee responsible to Libyan people for external trade and imports revises all these requests and on the basis of the resolutions of the basic people's congresses decides that such a request is a first priority, another is a second priority, and another Q 5 NORTH AFRICA is a third priority. [passage indistinct]. Then what links our economic and external trade relations with abroad is this com- mittee. The Libyan people can then tell this committee that they have decided to economically boycott Britain, America, and West Germany because they are enemies. When there are 100 organizations, (?you lose control over them). You will find 50 organizations importing from Germany. But this organization will say that the Libyan people have decided to boycott West Germany because it protects terrorists and because it is the enemy, as it supports the Israeli enemy, and because it is an American base. We will prevent it from gaining benefit from anything. We will boycott it and deprive it of billions. Instead of that billion going to West Germany, the People's Committee for Economy and External Trade, in implementation of the policy of the Libyan people, decided at the basic people's congresses and drafted by the General People's congress, boycotts Germany. Thus these orders will go to North Korea and even China, but not West Germany, or they will go to Yugoslavia. But now everyone says I import to the value of 1,000 dinars from Sweden, 5,000 dinars from Switzerland; another asks a trivial question on another matter. This is the meaning of the unification of the [word indistinct], the unification of importers. Our economic relations with the world should be handled by one organization, led by the policy of the Libyan people [words indistinct]. It is they who could oppose many requests. They can turn down a request if it is one of consumption and the Libyan people said that consumer goods should not be imported. That 5 million dinars that you spend on the purchase of henna, the Libyan people said if anyone wants henna let him plant it here in Libya. Because anyone who puts something on the market is like a merchant, he is not interested in the economy of the country. He imports from abroad, that is all. When an establish- ment is responsible for the installation, or what ever they call it, of course the marketing of these installations was wrong or these installations which you have [word indistinct]. What does an installation, a factory, means? It is not an organi- zation that buys and sells. It is responsible for clothes. The people who work for an organization that imports clothes in most cases are not interested in the economy of the country, inasmuch as they are interested in your being satisfied with them because you have provided them with clothes. [as heard] The provision of clothes could be at the expense of the economy of the country, and at the expense of its future. It is said that anyone who demands something will find it: the one who wants nylon will find it as will the one who wants cotton, wool, silk, colorful clothes, small, or other clothes such as Al-Sadat's drip-dry suit [words indistinct]. Anyone who asks for anything finds it. He will say, oh well, those who are in charge of importing clothes are excellent, promote them again, and even raise their salaries. Why? Because any clothes they want they can find. You took your money and give it to other countries of the world [words indistinct]. If you have money and give it to someone and tell him to buy you something he will buy you anything. He will bring the milk of the ghoul in Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 V cans, like rose milk. it is a matter of money, that is all [words indistinct]. - (?Offer) according to the need. I explained this before in Sabha at the General People's Congress on the al-Fatih anniversary and I am not going to say it again. The recording exists, play it on the radio and anyone who did not hear it, let him hear it. Social security, the transfer of services to the fund, we did not forget this, the (?productivty) and opening of branches for it in the municipalities, this is [words indistinct]. Oil, support the [word indistinct] projects? What does this mean? What do they mean by this resolution? [Unidentified speaker] As regards what is meant by supporting the Ras Zanuf projects, during the visit carried out by the secretaries of the people's congresses in Banghazi, it became clear that the first stage of the project was completed. The Jama- hiriyah needs the completion of this project in order to cover the other projects for industrial self-sufficiency. The Ras Zanuf projects are still delayed in the second and the third stage; they are the ones which will supply industrial projects with raw materials such as ethylene and other materials. [Unidentified speaker] Perhaps he means the second stage, the completion - Ras Zanuf has other stages, I think the second and third which have not been completed. The basic people's congress met in Ras Zanuf and (?appealed) to the people's congress at the Jamahiriyah level on the basis of supporting and completing this project up to its third stage, I think, and some of the second. Several television program studied the projects and yesterday maybe there was a seminar. [Al-Qadhdhafi] What do you mean by it? What do you mean by supporting it? [Unidentified speaker] What is meant by supporting is.the com- pletion of the remaining stage - two and three of the projects - until the raw material with which we will operate the factories in the Jamahiriyah is made available. The support refers to material support or support through the implementation of the current existing project, from income from the existing project, that is the first stage, can complete the remaining project. [as heard] [Al-Qadhdhafi] But doctor. [Unidentified speaker] Yes? [Al-Qadhdhafi] [passage indistinct] The oil secretariat should present a memorandum to the basic people's congresses explaining what the second stage means which, if I understood it, the complex in Ra's Zanur now transforms the oil into a material whose name I do not know. What is its name? Eyt- hylene. All right, all right. This material is considered a raw material for other industries. The stage we have now reached is the middle stage between crude oil and industry. We transformed the crude oil, which is extracted from the earth into a new material called eythylene. On this material tens or hundreds of industries are based; there are 300-500 derivatives. These deriva- NORTH AFRICA tives should be written in a memorandum and distributed to the people's congresses stating that if you complete the second stage you will establish a group of factories around Ra's Zanuf to use the raw material produced by Ra's Zanuf in other industries - in the making of utensils, plastic, cars, [word indistinct], tables, clothes, pens, all these things are made from this material. As for general reports, we have nothing to do'with these-gene I ral reports. The people's congress will read them and discuss them. Administrative Control As for enlarging the central apparatus for administrative control and the audit bureau - I do not know how you will do it. Then there is the creation of the people's follow-up apparatus. I will explain this. The creation of a people's follow-up ap aratus p - now there is planning and follow-up. The people's committee for planning also carries out the follow-up, like there is an audit bureau... Excuse me I have forgotten you for the second time. You raised your hand and...The audit bureau follows up and controls financial spending, the financial aspect. The administration con- trol will supervise the progress of administration to see if there has been a deviation from laws and resolutions of the general administration. The people's committees for planning, economy and planning, has a follow-up. Planning means there is follow-up. It follows the projects. The first project [word indistinct] the production ratio in this is so much, this is idle, this is not operating at full capacity, was so and so accomplished, and so and so [word indistinct], this was completed. In the end it submits a report.. In' any country, the government (?presents to parliament a report) which says this is the result of the follow-up. But the people's committees which are planning now, planning for a project for instance, or the economy in general, is the one which follows this up. Consequently there is no assurance that the follow-up is fair. The one who plans and draws up the planning policy which is . approved by the people's congresses and he who drafts them or helps the people's congresses by explaining to them how planning is done because the committees consist of planning specialists, they themselves do the follow-up. This is to o-a certain degree similar to the board of a company which carries out the consulta- tion and the implementation. The consultant should be one thing and the company which implements is another matter and the one who does the follow-up is another - to supervise them. Thus a new people's apparatus should be created, people's committees for instance or anything, along the lines of the people's apparatuses, the audit bureau, the central apparatus for admin- istrative supervision, the creation of a people's follow-up commit-. tee, call it what you like. They will follow up planning. One draws up the plan, another implements it,:and a third who did not take' part either in the planning or in the implementation should follow, up, only supervise. Because if the one who drew up the plan is-.the one who supervises he will make the result correspond to his planning so that they do not say his planning was wrong. If the one who implements also supervises he will try to make the supervision agree with the implementation in order to show that there was nothing wrong with the implementation. But the supervisor whould be an independent party: Things needing explaining are the memoranda of the [words indistinct] offer in accordance with the need as we have explained Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 at a previous time. The unification of the importation sides (?whose memorandum is before you), the unification of the importation sides (?whose memoradum is before you), the unifi- cation of the importation sides in accordance with my explana- tion now - the decision is for the people's congress. They decide or do not decide, they reject or do not reject, the idea is this: the recovery of society's funds from individuals, installations, and general companies. This does not concern you. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Reviewing the criteria of those elected to the basic people's congresses and the people's committees: Some time ago, the people's congresses decided those elected to mem- bership of a people's committee must be a technician, a specialist, a university graduate, etc. In my personal view, experience has taught us that such people perhaps would not be the right choice. A person who can neither read nor write may be able to render a service to the people, or to carry out the decision of a people's congress better than a technocrat, an expert, or someone we think is educated or a graduate, and who would be a democrat after all. Q7 ' NORTH AFRICA no tribe, I cannot find a guarantor. Could you be my guarantor? Then a non-Libyan arab might come, a non-Libyan arab wanting to live in Libya might come, but instead of coming and saying: I am an arab and I come to Libya according to laws, and I want to be an Arab here, instead of this he says to himself that he might not be accepted and goes to so and so saying to him: I am from such a tribe, accept me in your tribe. The tribal chief then would bring another 100 persons. The, person engaging in such practices must be deprived of his freedom. When free, such a tribal chief would constitute a harm to society. He would constitute a party, a tribe from nothing; he would be a?guardian for people. [Unidentified speaker] There is an important point related to the issue of compensation for Italy's occupation of Libya and the Libyan arab people's right to file suits to get compensation. At that time, it was necessary to lay down rules; but this is against democracy. Any citizen can be a member of a people's commit- tee, even if he or she is illiterate. If people choose such a person to be member of the people's committee, well then, he is chosen. Reviewing the death penalty: We have spoken about it in Sebha, and those who do not understand the issue could acquaint themselves with the cassette in the radio station and consider it an explanatory memorandum. I told you that I personally am against the death penalty, but at this moment, at this stage, there are things, there are cases where those involved must be liq- uidated. Besides, at this stage, we cannot encourage the enemies of the people, the enemies of the people's power, and petty adventurers who would become daring because the death penalty would not be there any more. Likewise, military laws have their own measures in all countries, and are not concerned by this subject. For instance, a soldier fleeing from the battlefield after laying down his weapons must be immediately executed. Otherwise, anyone would be able to abandon his weapons and go. Laying down rules regarding those who return from abroad, this has only one point; how to discuss it? There is the case of Libyans who were in Libya and then left for one reason or another, and now they return to Libya. In this case, we say welcome to them. Another case: A non-Libyan Arab who wants to live in Libya, to become a Libyan citizen: We say to him, O.K. welcome. You already have decided on this. Where is the dispute or the problem then? The problem is that a Libyan having left Libya and returned looks for a tribal chief and ask him to testify that he is the son of so and so, from the family of so and so, whose father went abroad at the time of the Italians to a certain place, leaving me, a small boy. Then another one comes saying the same thing, and the tribal chief makes up a file and comes to the Department of Justice saying: These people are from my tribe, 100 persons returning from abroad, and I testify that they belong to my tribe. But other people may come and say: Ah, so and so is capable of securing a certificate of nationality from the Department of Justice. They would go to the same chief and say: Please, l have [Al-Qadhdhafi] The objective of submitting this at people's con- gresses is to tell Italy that if it does not compensate Libyans for the damage inflicted on them as a result of the country being occupied - and they have not given us a reply regarding all the Libyans whom they took to Italy - thousands whose fate is unknown. [sentence as heard] Where are their sons, their sons' sons, their grandchildren, their granchildren's children [words indistinct]? Did you burn them, kill them, execute them, sell them to another country? If they are dead where did you bury them, where are their graves [word indistinct]? This is a crime [word indistinct]. Germany is still paying its debts for the crimes committed by Hitler. The whole world regarded him as a crimi- nal, it allied itself against Hitler and destroyed his country, because, they said, he was putting Jews in ovens. Well, there are thousands of Libyans who were taken by Italy, maybe they were put in ovens [words indistinct]. We are fighting Italy alone; we will take our revenge. How can it take thousands of Libyans and their fate become unknown. [Words indistinct) we have a dispute over borders since 1900, and the Suez Canal agreement which [words indistinct] the 1956 war goes back to 1888. Has not the past gone and ended? [passage indistinct]. All right, they took thousands of Libyans in this century. Every Libyan family now - we are now putting Italy in the dock. Either Italy will do all this in an amicable and peaceful way - compensate us and give us an answer regarding the Libyans it took [word indistinct] and the things it stole from Libya, antiquities and manuscripts - they must return these - or at this meeting of the people's congresses and after the time given to Italy, Libyans will act. Everyone will act as they wish [words indistinct]. We can take an Italian as a captive - that is that - and we will announce that we have taken one italian in exchange for a [word indistinct] at least bring a Libyan out. Where did you bury him or put him [words indistinct]? Hence, if someone has suffered from Italy he can confiscate Italian prop- erty- can [word indistinct] Italian property. Let relations between us be like this; demand revenge and take whatever you can. If Italy does not want our relations to deteriorate to this extent, it has to work with us and decide to compensate us and return what was stolen from Libya. [sentence indistinct] Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 cedent. The former German chancellor, Adenauer, Israelis for Hitler's crimes. The present-day Ital- iould compensate us for Mussolini's crimes and the m. . speaker] This is related to the issue of compensa- Libyans' right to file suit [words indistinct], and a must be issued. 11 The Foreign Ministry submits a report on the Falashas to the occupied territories. All right, how g 'Umar al-Tayyib, Numayri's deputy, and his uggled the Falasha. The smuggler number one is l, Numayri. [passage indistinct] This quick review must be done in the way we did so that it will be ,eople's congresses. You, who have attended this ds indistinct]. Most of the people's congresses the :this discussion and meeting. This concerns [words speaker] Regarding the basic people's congress, the more precisely, the secretary of the basic people's 'e responsible for presenting an explanatory memo- ling any resolution passed by the congress. In view tinct] during the days of the congresses being held, .vill be responsible and will not be free. Therefore, -ult to present any memorandum. In this case we citizen himself, to the one who makes decisions, present a memorandum. I do not know whether ;ht to ask him to present a memorandum, and, if mId his resolution be droped or not. Please clarify. ] From the beginning, when this member raises his 's congress and has an opinion; what is he? [word nion and issuing a law of where did you get this. ind explains it to us and you (?discuss). This way . continue with their work and proceed to pass I record this member's remarks.. Budget, Planning ] [Word indistinct] the 1986. budget, we have the ment plan which ended in 1985, 1981-85. What r this plan? Shall we start another plan or not? I ?r the previous plan a [word indistinct]. It is. not ,Ian in revolutionary terms. Traditionally, it could n as in any traditional country - this is called a 1 another is a 10-year plan. There is the previous coming budget, from year to year - and they However, the revolution rejects this method and .er it a plan. I gave you an example; it was Stalin he 5-year plan. He transformed the Soviet Union Rural country into an industrial one in 5 years. world began to depend on 5-year plan methods. d clamoring: 5-year plan, 5-year plan [words :e then the 5-year plan became a tradition; any .vas a 5-year plan does not do anything. A 5-year bilizing specific capabilities: Stalin [words indis- Union into an industrial country, because it was cultural country. He mobilized capabilities over ? 40 NORTH AFRICA 5 years and slaughtered millions of people who opposed this plan; it is said that he slaughtered 5 million - according to [word indistinct] - people who opposed the 5-year plan in order to reach this great objective, namely transforming the Soviet Union into an industrial country. If it was not for that method .the Soviet Union. would have remained backward like China and India; like any of those large countries which cannot face up to America. The Soviet Union is the only country that can confront America, since because of this plan it was able to reach an advanced stage in a short time. Generally, in revolutionary terms, the 5-year or 10-year and other plans mean something other than known here, something other than the Libyan 5-year plan of 1981-85. This is not a plan at all. Five years have passed and every year [words indistinct) remarks that the Libyan woman's role is not present in a principal way in this conference. How do we interpret this. [passage indistinct]. She is sitting at home; she is not sitting here. The remark is well in place. Restrictions have been removed on the part of people's democracy and even the laws promulgated under the revolution and people's authority. Masses are masses and the state of the masses comprises men and women. But women have internal shortcomings inherited from the times of their oppres- sion. Even those who have a right in court, and the law allows them to go to court, can say that she does not want to go to court and leaves herself at a man's mercy. I was talking about. wealth [words indistinct] during 1986, 1987 and 1988 until 1990, for example, for 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, and for any number of years. I am talking about what we need; what Libya needs. I am talking about Libyans. I am talking about myself. Firstly, the 1986 budget. [passage indistinct]. Each sector has estimated its 1986 budget, and it was 1.7 billion dinars. That means they need 1.7 billion dinars to implement the development projects which these committees want. [passage indistinct] If we prepare one year's budget we would need 1.7 billion, and if we want to prepare a 2-year plan, 1986-88, and we multiply the 1.7 billion by two we get about 3.5 billion; that is 3.5 billion dinars that would be needed for 2 years. If we want to prepare a 5-year plan, we. multiply it by five - we would need 8.5 billion dinars. (?I mean) this year you may have 1.7 billion in your hands. How would you divide it up? [words indistinct] health, poultry, [word indistinct] palm, industry, health [as heard], schools;, anything that is needed [words indistinct]. The 1.7 billion will be divided among them in 1986. On the other hand, we collect 3.5 billion dinars and divide it over 2 years [words indistinct]; but let us say that in 2 years, 1986-87, there are 3.5 billion dinars. Or let us say we prepare a 5-year plan. We spend 8.5 billion dinars, that means we would have' 8.5 billion dinars for 5-years [words indistinct] and we spend it over 5,years. What do we do with this 8.5 billion? [passage indistinct] [Al-Qadhdhafi] Another 5-year plan: When we say that in 5 years it will turn into an industrial state, it means that most of the money we make in 5 years and that totals 80 billion dinars we must transfer for industry. this is an industrial plan. We take 5,000, 6,000, or 7,000 and transfer it to industry, or as you said, we turn into an agricultural state. Five years and Libya would Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01 : CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 ? V V. 24 Dec 85 Q 9 NORTH AFRICA become a world farm. When we talk about available revenues we, in fact, mean the price of the oil and nothing else. What you must realize is that you must know that you have nothing but oil, and so far you have not realized that you have nothing but oil. The day when the price of oil is reduced your money is reduced as well as your revenues; from all Libya's revenues to everyone's revenue. When the oil is not sold at all, all Libya's revenue is cut off; even your wages are cut off, because your wages now come from oil and the wages of Libya as a state also come from oil. The task before you is to turn oil into another inexhaustible material. You do not seem to understand this. How many years have I been screaming and telling you that you have nothing but oil? I beg you to turn oil into substitutes, make substitutes for oil. Sell the oil now and (build?) industry; sell the oil now and run the agriculture. You have estimated the budget of 1986 between 1.7. billion. [as heard] Does it really mean that all these secretariats might need 1.7 billion [word indistinct] 1986, next year? But the assessments say that in 1986 we will get 1,3 billion i.e., 400 short. It is probable that 1987 will attain the same figure, 1.3 billion and the year after that, and it is possible for a number of years that the amount we could allocate for the transformation is approxi- mately 1,300 [as heard]. Therefore the revenues in 1986 could be 1.3 billion. if we add them for 2 years it will be 2.6 billion; for 5 years 5 times is 6.5 billion. in other words, what will be achieved in fact, is that you will have 1986 in your own hands, money in your own hands, 1.3 billion dinars. If you add to it the sum of the year after it will be 2.6 billion. You could run a plan for two years with 2,600 which you expect to be in your hand. What can you run for 2,600? you will say 2,000 will be turned to industry and the 600 for agriculture, or vice-versa, or no industry and no agriculture; with one we buy bananas and the other we buy clothes or foodstuff and so forth. Or you may say we shall make a 5-year plan with 6.5 billion dinars. In 5 years we will have 6.5 billion, dinars. What are we going to do with it? This is clear. It means that in 5 years you could have 6 billion. It could possibly be 7 billion. Because the assessments make the average figure in expectation of any emer- gency with regard to the oil crisis, it might become cheaper, or could not be bought, or a war breaks out. Anything of this sort might occurr: a fire might break out in the oil fields in some wells that would hinder [production], the weather might change, hurricanes might hinder exports. It is therefore possible for you to have in your hand 7 billion dinars within 5 years. You can draw up a 5-year plan with that money, 7 billion dinars. Henceforth, we decided what to do with this money: come on, decide on a 5-year plan. You will say 5 billion for the industry, and 2 billion for agriculture; or 2 billion only for industry and 5 billion for agriculture, provided you do not go over this figure. With this available scope, you will say by God, this does not suit us; 1.3 billion does not suit us for 1986 because what we needis at least 1.7 billion. All right, where will you get the rest from? Or you may say that in 2 years, we will not have 2.6 billion, we must have 3 or 4 billion - a 2-year plan. Or you may say that for a period of 5 years we must have 10 billion dinars and not 6 or 7 billion; we must arrange for a further 3 billion dinars. So much for the number one operation. As for number two, let us assume that we employ the Libyans who do not earn wages; the Libyans who really do not earn wages are the students. If we assume that we give the students a salary, but unlike a salary by foreign companies, say the student takes a salary of 50 dinars [words indistinct] 80 dinars, if the student is employed for 50, 60, 70, or 80 dinars per month and the students carry out the transformation plan for 1986 or 1986-87; or during the 5 years, the amount for 1986 will be 1,174 billion and for 2 years it will 2,384, 5 years 5.87 billion. [words indistinct). Instead of spending 1,300 if we employ the students, instead of spending 1.7 billion in 1986, we will spend less, 1.174 billion. What does it mean? Eh? If we employ the students for 2 years, instead of spending 6.5 billion dinars we will spent 2.384 billion, and over 5 years 5.87 billion. These are the choices we have. A choice that the Libyans carry out the implementation of the projects by the Libyans who earn their salaries, it is they who implement the transformation budget for 1986, or the 2-year plan or the 5-year plan. In the first year we spend 600 million and in 2 years this figure is doubled, and over 5 years you multiply it by five. If we employ the Libyans who do not receive salaries and give them a salary less than that of the salaries of the companies and foreign manpower, we will not save 600 million in the first year, but less than that of course; i.e. one-third of this amount. It is possible to save 400 million instead of 600 million. Thus in 2 years, we will save 800 million, in 5 years, five times four. You consume 66,000 metric tonnes of olive oil a year, and you produce 3,000 metric tons. You import 63,000 metric tons. From where? From Tunisia. When our Tunisian brothers treated us shabbily, we decided to punish the Tunisian Government. I personally said: We are not buying olive oil from Tunisia. Where then are we going to buy it they said? From Ital S i y, pa n, or from I do not know where. It is not feasible to punish an Arab state and then benefit the Spanish state, Spain which is going to recognize the Israelis soon, or the Italians with whom we have an account to settle. I said no to depriving Tunisia and...but it would have been a good thing if only the prices of olive oil were benefitting the Tunisian people; in fact, it goes to exploiters and contractors. Now can I benefit Spain and Italy. We can do without olive oil, we said, but you shouted: we want olive oil, olive oil. On the one hand you insult Tunisia and you were prepared for war, and - well, when I speak about Tunisia I am not speaking about all Tunisia, I speak about the Tunisian Government - and on the other hand you say: we want olive oil. We have an account to settle with Italy and then you say: Where is olive oil. Well, oil is in Italy. About Spain you say: How are they going to recognize the enemy? They are this and that; and then you ask for oil. Oil is in Spain. You fight them with words and you give them gold! Here there is no need to be an economic specialist; these are obvious things that everyone knows. Imports I mean, if you are going to cut the consumption of these things, then decide it. If you cut imports by half you would save 500 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01 : CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 W V. 24 Dec 85 a million [Libyan dinars] for 1986, and about l billion in 2 years, that is 1986-1987. You would save more than 2 billion over the coming 5 years. .. The money saved can go to Libyans in the form of loans, and everyone would do as he likes: build a farm, or a cistern, or marry five or even six wives, or build a two-storey house. You would be free. The fact is that no one is being bound by the Islamic Shari'a, and even those who. are calling for the rule of Shari'a are not implementing it. Shari'a is not easy, but because the Shari'a does not prohobit marrying several wives, it is all right then; four, five, ten. Because you want the implementation of tradition set by the prophet, well, .the prophet married 11. Preachers in mosques speak about the Sunna of the prophet; all right then, let it be the tradition set by the prophet. But the prophet fought the infidels, and you are giving them gold. We have given consideration only to the other side of the Sunna, the sweet side of it. Once again I say that the imports budget for 1986 needs l billion dinars. It will need 2 billion for the next 2 years, and 4.5 billion for the next 5 years. You can decide the imports budget yourself. What is the imports budget? It means foodstuff, clothes, and other items we buy from abroad. Do without half of the imports and you will save 500 million for next year, 1 billion over 2 years, and 2 billion over the next 5 years. The next point is the armed people. Let us suppose that Libya needs 100,000 persons under arms at one time and suppose we have I million Libyans trained in the use of arms. This would make 5 groups each consisting of 100,000 persons. [as heard] If each group stays under arms, then the first 100,000 go and another 100,000 replace them. This means that in a year each of us would spend 2 and 1/2 months under arms. Sorry. If we are 500,000 trained people and want 100,000 under arms, then we would have 5 groups comprising 100,000 each. If each group spends 2 and 1/2 months it would make one year; therefore, in a year each 100,000 carry arms for 2 and 1/2 months, and they then leave and are replaced by another 100,000, in shifts under arms. This would go on year in year out, and every year each of us would spend 2 and 1/2 months under arms. This naturally supposes training for everybody, every year, so as not to forget the use of weapons. Let us now suppose that we reach 1 million armed and trained persons; then instead of 2 and 1/2 months, the period under arms becomes I month. This means that one spends only I month under arms a year. As the pop- ulation grows and the number of persons trained increases the period under arms gets shorter. While in other states people spend 2. years, .15 months, or 3 years under conscription, with everyone serving 2 or 3 years, with the armed people we would spend only I month under arms a year. But let us suppose 2 months. We want things to be clear. We are now waiting for the results of the training program which is now under way. No one can say: I work in the morning then let me undergo training in the morning. This would be treason. It would be like running away from work, as if one would be working for Italy, for instance. But Libyans would be working for themselves. M Q10 ] We are supposed to go for weapons trainin day if we are to be able to confront Amerii these idiots. All this is to [word indistinct idea of an armed people. First, the general ? continue like a clock, and every Libyan m he has weapons training and he must not r( he be called over the radio, punished, pt anything. If you have a legitimate excuse do not have a legitimate excuse you must g( fixed for you on a monthly or weekly basis, if you are a mosque goer, or like you go you go the market, you must go to the plac the armed people will emerge. From now can say let us have 50,000 men or 100,000 2 months. They do their work responsibly come. We can say we want 50,000 men under am the period under arms gets shorter. The 50 for 1 month or 1 and 1/2 months, then another 50,000 and so forth. So one gets years. This is the easiest thing. Better the the slavery that used to be. A 2-year servi I must declare that the Arab states have great artificial river [project to bring wa oases] despite all the repeated promises - have the means: Saudi Arabia, Kuwai declare that these states have failed to c artificial river, despite the fact that th billions in Jewish-owned banks in America buted even with a I billion loan [currenc great artificial river, a loan that would be Libyan people from the production of the These are not states [words indistinct]; tht iced in banks in America and Europe bene enemies of the Arab nations: America( Western states. And we have frequently s the People's Congresses sent them a people were promises, and soon, but now we are o have failed to contribute to the great artif. Traveling abroad: On every journey yo dinars as a result of visits abroad by Lib takeout I hundred million. If you wanted t 100 million for 1986 and this is added tc years 200 million, in 5 years 500 million, Some group brought me information tell Israeli goes abroad on vacation- he pays $: him, if you go abroad give us $500 and pt return for your going abroad because this him, and you do not go out of the promise( pays $500, he gives it to the treasury and Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Q11 NORTH AFRICA out 100 million every year; you can run a factory with this sum or agriculture [words indistinct]. Libyans go abroad. Why'do they go abroad? What is the secret that makes you go abroad? They say you (?buy) gold [words indistinct]. The money you spend abroad and with which you buy gold from abroad is twice as much; the gold is not necessary; the 100 million is very worthwhile for you, the amount you take out [words indistinct] invested in Ghana, it has goldmines and you have a mineral company, its capital is $(?600 million). How do you take out 10 million dinars every month and say we are saving and we are carrying out our duty? Is this the duty and is this the bread and butter and the general mobilization? Imag- ine with 10 million dinars you can run something every month, a factory every month, or a farm every month. I mentioned to you very important factories for 2 or 3 millions per year. You spend 10 million dinars abroad every month and you do not spend it in Libya. How can the people shoulder their responsibil- ity? Well? [Al-Qadhdhafi] As I told you, the question of tourism is extremely important. If we want to build our national economy and our strong economic power, then we should not spend 10 million [dinars] monthly abroad at all. If there are things you need to get from abroad, then find a way to get them from abroad, such as asking the Libyan people's bureaus abroad to bring you the things you need. Concentrate on internal tourism. You do not know Libya. There are things in Libya to see which excel anything in Europe a thousand times. It has mountains, deserts, plains and all the scenery you want. If you want to meet with foreigners, ask them to come here. Bring them to see their [word indistinct] [Al- Qadhdhafi says laughingly]. Bring them here and they will come personally.[as heard] I f you want anything, the people's bureaus can bring them. Then Libya has sufficient natural features. If you want to meet with the foreigners, let them come here and you permit them to come here and that is all. But it is wrong to take 100 million dinars per year abroad. This would undermine the economy. To take 10 million dinars per month out is something that cannot be accept- able at all. [AI-Qadhdhafi apparently addresses somebody] You want to ask a question? But I have not finished talking yet. [Unidentified speaker] What makes our kinsmen and loved ones rush to travel is connected with the importation committee's activities. Things which can be bought from Bulgaria or Turkey for 3 or 4 dinars, are sold here in Libya for 60 dinars or 70 dinars. What is the reason for the high cost of living? If this is due to customs duty, it should not be that high. 'Al-Qadhdhafi] Let us hear what the secretary of the General People's Committee for economy has to say about this? Is this true? Please explain this matter to us. Secretary for the economy] This is not true at all. [commotion in background] [Same unidentified speaker] Brother commander. Let me give you an example. Take fur. Those who go to Morocco buy it for about 9 dinars and 12 dinars. But it is sold here for 70 dinars. [commotion in background] It is there in our markets and the price tags are'on them and you can set them. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Let us hear what the secretary of. the General People's Committee for Economy and Light Industries has to say. Let him reply and then you have your turn to talk. [Secretary for the economy] The products and their qualities are well-known. They are classed into grades. When we buy, we buy grade I goods according to special specifications. We buy well- known goods. What we buy we buy from well-known and recog- nized companies according to special specifications and everything they export is exported according to these specifications. Those who go to folk markets the goods they find there are rejects, they have been rejected by the companies because they cannot be exported: These things you see in a folk market in Morocco are rejects which the manufacturing compan- ies refuse to export. [commotion in background] [Same unidentified speaker] This is unreasonable. [Al-Qadhdhafi addressing the secretary for the economy] If you buy a suit from abroad, for how much do you sell it to the people? Let him answer. { [Secretary for the economy] If we buy it for 3 dinars, we sell it for 4 and 1 /2 dinars or for 5 dinars. [Same unidentified speaker] It is not correct. [commotion in the background] Take another example. Take Seiko watches. Abroad they are sold for 10 dinars a watch, and sometimes for 6 dinars. But here they are sold for 40 dinars and 45 dinars. [Secretary for the economy] We have nothing at all that is sold for 40 dinars. . [Same unidentified speaker] They.they are sold for 35 dinars. [Secretary for the economy] If the issue concerns watches and. such things, then this is a different matter. [Same unidentified speaker] This proves a lack of control by the Economy Secretariat over the markets and shops: [Al-Qadhdhafi] I wish to make a general remark. When things come from abroad say costing 5 dinars, and are brought to the market where it is sold for 7 dinars, the 2 dinars are customs duties. It does not matter which country they are brought from, even from Ceylon. The 2 dinars go to the state's treasury. It is the citizen's contribution. to the general budget in an indirect manner. This is the philospliy behind customs and taxes. When the government is feudalist and opposed to the masses, it spends these taxes and duties on the police, prisons, suppression and on tightening the government's grip on citizens. Hence frequently, citizens try to dodge these taxes and duties saying, Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 ? ? why should I give them to the government's treasury to increase the number of police. But when the treasury belongs to the Libyan people and you pay 2 dinars extra, you must rest assured that this returns to you in the commodities budget, by which rice and grains and clothes are bought or factories are run or guns are bought. This is a general remark which you must understand. Any increased taxes or duties in Libya are actually used to increase your budget, the commodities budget that is before you, the school budget, the hospital budget. They come back to you. This is a matter we must accept without argument or controversy. The other remark I wish to make, is that the Libyan people can decide that such commodities be sold at cost price. Say one commodity is bought from Europe for 5 dinars. The cost of transport ans storage are then calculated. Say this cost I dinar. Then it should be sold for 6 dinars. The Libyan people can do this. But there is a revenue which consists of such differences in price. It consists of such taxes and duties and customs. [Al-Qadhdhafi addresses the secretary for the economy] How much annually do we get in customs and taxes? [Secretary for the economy] [Passage indistinct] [Al-Qadhdhafi] It should be sufficient to meet salaries, which should not be met from the oil. Salaries should be met from what we all pay in taxes and customs duties. All these resources are called sovereignty revenue. The sovereignty revenue should be enough to meet salaries. We must not seek to pay for salaries from the oil revenue. The revenue from oil should be used only for development and for the reserve. How much are the sovereignty revenues? [words indistinct] Sal- aries should not be paid out from oil [income]. Rather, salaries should be paid out from what we all pay in the form of customs, the goods we make and charges [words indistinct]. When we add all these things together it gives us what is called sovereignty revenues. These revenues should cover the payment of salaries. We should not pay salaries out of oil [income]. Oil should be for development and reserves only. We now probably spend I billion dinars on salaries, out of which 400 [million] are from sovereignty revenues, which are taxes, customs, and charges. While the 600 million shortage you should take from oil [as heard]. If you want, this thing costs 5 and it sells for 5 for instance; these 400 millions you should understand that there is [word indistinct] [sentence as heard]. Matter, as scientists say, cannot be created out of nothing. Nothing wastes; it evaporates into space, then it condenses again; if it burns it creates energy, energy once again turns to gases, solid, liquid matter, or whatever. However, it is not wasted. [words indistinct] The 400 million I have just mentioned, achieved from these, can become only 200 or 300 million. Q 12 NORTH AFRICA [Indistinct intervention from the floor] [Al-Qadhdhafi] Let one person alone answer me. When, no, not you (?Ali al-Mukhtar) you should not speak. When we deduct the 400 million which are (?collected) every year from the sovereignty revenue [words indistinct]. All right, answer me. [Indistinct words from the floor] [Unidentified speaker] [Words indistinct] the wrongdoing is by the importer. He goes abroad and imports the goods at any price they tell him and brings them here [words indistinct]. The mid- dlemen involved, in this article, dear leader, we said the unifica- tion of the importation sides. [sentence as received] The unification of the sides regarding the import of goods is indeed a good idea which will be implemented, God willing. Because any company which goes abroad ...[speaker changes thought] It enters any state and takes it in (?cars), hotels, and I don't know what. He accepts any price they offer and he purchases the goods. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Libya is supposed to be the cheapest country in the world because there is no exploitation. Exploitation is what [words indistinct]. When a merchant sells in the market, we say this pair of glasses costs this paper. We go and increase the employees [words indistinct]. When we come to buy the glasses from the merchant the next day, we give him a paper as is the custom. He says to me: No, the price of the glasses now equals . two papers. It is as though the increase you gave the employees forced you to increase it to the merchant who does not produce anything. He sits in his place and increases the price of goods. Any country which has private trade has collapsed, especially in this economic crisis, because the merchants want to make a profit and people are in need. They increase prices, the state increases wages, prices are increased, and bankruptcy then takes place and the state falls [words indistinct]. Had there been private trade, you would have seen what state Libya would have been in. And had there been contractors, commission agents, contract clerks, you would have left the country a long time ago which would have been bankrupt. You would have gone because the socialist measures implemented in. Libya were the ones which prevented this. Egypt today is in the worst condition because there has been a retreat to a great extent from socialist measures implemented in the days of Jamal `Abd al-Nasir. Egypt has never faced such a crisis. [Unidentified speaker] Prices, indeed, brother leader. We are neither attacking nor blaming the people's committee for the economy. There is nothing between us and it. But the issue indeed, brother leader, is that the prices are frightfully high in relation to their original price. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Who puts up the prices? [Indistinct interventions from the floor]. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Correct. Who can understand when I million speak simultaneously? [Speaker] I am certain that there is a force [words indistinct] which is violating the socialist resolutions [words indistinct]. [Al-Qadhdhafi] First, who puts up the prices of imported goods? Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 - w [Speaker] First the factories. Fuel, fuel, brother leader... [Al-Qadhdhafi interrupting] I am asking you: Who is increasing prices? [Speaker] One moment. This is the start, brother leader... [Al-Qadhdhafi interrupting] Who puts them up? [Speaker] The starting point, fuel... [AI-Qadhdhafi interrupting] Who puts them up? Which side is increasing the price? We want to know it and make it account for this. [Speaker] (?The committee) for the economy. [Al-Qadhdhafi] The economy? [Speaker] The economy. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Well. [Speaker] And the committees formed [words indistinct]. [Al-Qadhdhafi] This increased cost, where does it go? [Speaker] It comes at the expense of the citizen, dear leader. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Tell me, where does it go? [Speaker] In the end, dear leader [words indistinct] but I am unable to buy it. (?Why for instance, do'we buy it in Bulgaria and find written on it made in Romania?) [AI-Qadhdhafi] This is another matter [words indistinct] This is a third question. First, who puts up the price? [Speaker] The economy, brother leader. [Al-Qadhdhafi] You said the economy. [Speaker] Yes. [Al-Qadhdhafi] You said the economy. [Speaker] Yes. [AI-Qadhdhafi] Well, then we said where does the increased cost go? We found it goes to the Libyan people, to the treasury of the Libyan people (uproar from the floor). Where, then, does it go? [Speaker] One moment, one moment, brother leader. I will answer you. Brother leader, in your guidance to the General People's Congress, and at this hall, sorry in Sabha, you pointed out [speaker changes thought], you held a pen in your hand and asked how did this committee hear of this pen factory and went and signed a contract with it. Now the delegation formed to sign agreements and purchasing contracts face more than one ques- tion and they are indeed the beneficiaries and probably have acounts abroad. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Why do you not hold them accountable? [Speaker] They will be made to account [words indistinct]. [Al-Qadhdhafi] Generally, you can decide whatever is necessary. The popular committees are obliged to implement the decisions. Anyone who does not you bring him to account and make him pay whether customs or excise duty, or taxes or (?ban) him from importing anything from abroad. [sentence as heard] Unfortu- nately, we are still working for colonialism. We are still (?newly developed), billions (?paid) to West German British, Italian, and American companies which are sometimes subsidiaries of Israeli quarters or owned by Israelis. [Words indistinct] Western Eur- ope, and America. The companies with whom contracts are signed primarily belong to this colonialist world which is hostile to us. Most tourism comes from these countries. Even a spare which you buy is imported from a colonialist state. Our relations must be reexamined with the Western states which are hostile to us particularly FRG, Britain, and America who give the Israelis full support and which are hostile to the Arab nation in general and the Libyan Arab people in particular and conspire against us. We must deprive and punish them eco- nomically. You can actually increase your salaries because the salaries that used to be paid to the aliens now can be paid to you provided you work. But, most of the Libyan work force is out of work now [words indistinct]. If this shirt is worth 5 dinar, we sell it to you for 10. Why do we take 5 more from you? It is to pay the alien you want to be here to serve you. If you want to be served by an alien, you should pay 10 dinars for a shirt which is worth 5. This is correct. It is because you want to sleep. At least you should spend your money if you, yourself, do not work. Pay money, and charge double customs duty so that you can pay the shepherds because you are no longer herding sheep. [passage indistinct] Your doctors and nurses come from abroad, as do cars and clothes. You want to holiday abroad. All this and you do not want us to increase the costs. You should at least cover your expenses. The Libyan compatriot costs the state a lot unlike any other country. He travels aborad and brings people from aborad to serve him, and everything he utilizes comes from aborad. In return for all this you should pay for it. The shirt that costs 5 dinars we will sell to you for 20. The difference of 15 goes to cover these costs. The other thing is this. You have a billion dinars stacked at home. Put this money in' the bank. The bank belongs to you. I would like to say a final point on foreign affairs now that we have concluded this matter and summarized it in this manner. The goods balance sheet, the budget, and the plan, we conduct the debate on this basis. Let the people make its view on it known. This is a decisive stage. You will notice this from your debates. [passage indistinct] You cannot finalize the problem in your favor. You either follow a positive or negative path. If you decide that you must import everything from abroad, or if you say let us (? offset) it with oil, Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 V - I will tell you and I would like you to understand that you have nothing except oil to sell. The money derived from it should be used in purchasing something that takes its place the day people stop buying oil. This is what I want you to understand. Foreign Affairs With regard to foreign affairs, there is the question about boy- cotting the states hostile to us. This question must be reexamined and we should boycott them. We should not deal with them and not let them benefit from us. Their companies should all be entered on the blacklist. We said that the rich Arab states have not regrettably partici- pated in the great man made river: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE. [sentence as heard] Libyan media interferes in the domestic affairs of the Arab states. I see this is not our duty. It will be quite sufficient for us to express joy over the new theory and propagate unity and liberation and concentrate on the things we have. The truth is that I am not with the media which says that there is this and there is that in the Egyptian black market. If the Egyptian citizen feels the burden of this terrible thing - the black market, he himself must be cognizant of it. He himself, can initiate the revolution. We must not speak on his behalf. Other- wise, it means that peopel are stupid and we are trying to teach them. The bread demonstration in Tunis. No, the Tunisian people themselves were feeling the hunger and they felt they needed bread. So they staged an uprising; and they fired on them with bullets. This is how it was. We do not need to tell them anything. Egypt Our stand should be pan-Arab. Our disagreement with Egypt is not because the watermelon is being sold in the black market in Egypt. This is something that concerns the Egyptian people themselves. We are quarreling with it because it recognized Israel. We are not quarrelling with it on account that the borders between us is crooked. There is no border problem between Egypt and ourselves. There is a serious, pan-Arab issue between Egypt and ourselves. It recognized our enemy and enabled him to transgress against us and destroy us in the northern front. He will destroy and crush Egypt at a later time and then will come to Libya and the rest of the Arab countries. Thus, he builds a Zionist empire upon the ruins of the Arab homeland. Egypt is selling 40 million barrels of oil to the Israeli enemy daily. It has sent him aviation fuel which is used in striking the Lebanese, Palestinians, and Syrians. It also sells him steel which he turns into bombs and guns. It buys the surplus goods like eggs and (? what have you) from him. This is strength for the enemy. No Arab must, even if we have to fight him, strengthen and recognize the enemy because it constitutes a danger to us. He and the enemy can go to hell. We are against Yasir 'Arafat when he recognizes Israel. Why? Because it constitutes a danger to us. If he recognizes it, Israel will continue to be hostile to the rest of us who have not reeog- Q 14 NORTH AFRICA nized it. It will strike us and even impose recognition upon us. Someone will say what difference does it make to you if 'Arafat recognizes or does not recognize [Israel]'Arafat's recognition will be at the expense of our future. Recognition of Israel by King Husayn also will be at our future's expense. [Al-Qadhdhafi] If King Husayn, or Syria and the enemy become (?friends), it will mean the end of this issue and Israel will (?turn) on Syria and destroy Syria tomorrow. Therefore, Syria has the right to intervene so that Husayn will not recognize Israel. It also is our right to intervene in this, because if Syria is destroyed, then they [Israel] will destroy us. [Words indistinct] The force that faces Syria - if Syria was finished - would turn on you and destroy you. These things are foregone conclusions. We do not have a border problem with Egypt, and the quarrel with that country is not because the regime there is an exploiter or that there is a lack of democrcy there. The entire world lives without democracy. [Words indistinct] There is a pan-Arab quarrel between Egypt and ourselves. The domestic problem has nothing to do with us. Take Morocco for instance. Do we agree with it on everything inside their country or our country? No, not at all. There are matters which are completely paradoxical. But this concerns the Moroccans. And if the Moroccans feel them they feel them, and if they want to resist them, it is up to them to resist them. If they like them then let them like them. The same applies to the Libyans. But as long as he builds an Arab unity with me, that is it, there is (?an accord). We do not have a problem about who rules and who (?directs) in Tunisia and what it has and what it does not have. This concerns the Tunisians. When they staged the bread demonstration you did not tell them to demonstrate. They were starving so they staged the demonstration. What we have with them is a pan-Arab stand. We have the Djerba declaration with them. Unity should be fulfilled. If it is not realized we will continue with the struggle for the sake of realizing unity, but not in the method which (?we are following now). [words indistinct] There is a great deal of talk saying that Husni Mubarak said that he would be prepared to receive Al-Qadhdhafi in Cairo. The Egyptian press, the Gulf press and the reactionary press have clamored about this. But by God, is this the proof of good intention! He boycotted us and we boycotted him. Why did we boycott him? Because he [Mubarak] recognized the enemy [Israel]. There are no problems between Libya and Egypt. It is a pan-Arab problem. In reply to all this, we say firstly that it is we who have boycotted Egypt. Then You [Mubarak] have no right to say come to me and I am prepared to meet with you. Since you recognize the enemy and you [words indistinct] how can we not boycott him who recognizes the enemy? He wishes to recognizer the enemy, and the Arabs come and sit with him and visit him and so he wins. For he would then feel that he has recognized the enemy and yet the arabs refrained from boycotting him. But on the contrary, the Arabs have boycotted him because he recognized the enemy. Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 NORTH AFRICA Then this matter is totally annulled. It has no legs to stand on. To say I [Mubarak]am prepared to meet with Al-Qadhdhafi even in Cairo, there is no quarrel between me [Mubarak] and him. We in fact did Husni Mubarak a personal favor when he was in the Egyptian Air Force. He knows how he came to my office when he was an officer and how we supplied him with missiles, bombs, and Mirage planes and how we supplied him with arms. He knows all this., There is no problem between us and him. On the contrary, he recognizes our favor and our stand by him at the decisive moments. Those responsible for the navy know where they got the boats from used in crossing the canal. He knows also the mobile [word indistinct] came from where? Those in the land forces also know: The Libyan artillary which [word indistinct] after the Israelis crossed the entire Suez Canal struck camp between Cairo and the canal. The Egyptian military can say nothing against us. For they know that we have done them a favor and that we have performed our duty. Whether Sadat denied this or not does not matter, for Sadat had no loyalty. He was a cursed person and is buried. Whether he denied it or not is not important. He was a hypocrite and a bastard. He was originally with'Abd al-Nasir then joined Amer- ica and the Jews. This proves that he was a hypocrite and consequently his testimony was not valid. He had no conscience. There is no problem between me and Husni Mubarak. There is no problem between Libya and Egypt. The problem is between the entire Arab nation and the Egyptian regime which has recognized Israel and provided it with all the means of power. I declare now that I am prepared to meet with Husni Mubarak in Egypt-or at the borders or at any place, but on condition that we discuss how can Egypt extricate itself from stable David. [words indistinct party covered by applause] He says we should meet without conditions. By God, this is the sort of meeting that should be 100 percent conditional. If such a meeting is to have no conditions, then there would be no con- ditions in the world and nothing remains conditional. This is the sort of meeting that should be conditional. Our-meeting.with him is not like his meeting with [King] Husayn at reagans place or his meeting with [Sultan] Qabus who is at the donkey stable, or his meeting with the fascist Saddam Husayn. These meet with him because they are all agents and so they rally around each other. But when I meet with him, I do so to discuss with him a pan-Arab issue; how to extricate himself from the impasse he is in, and to explain to me the reasons that made him stay until now in stable David; to tell me what he wants Libya to place at his disposal so that he could leave stable David and what he wants me to do regarding the Arab nation so that he could leave stable David; and to tell me what Egypt's capability is of leaving stable David and what are reasons that prevent it from leaving stable David. When he explains all this, then we can discuss matters with him and I would proceed with this matter in a manner that would bring honor to nee and to all the revolutionary forces: I would be walking in egypt but not in the way Husayn walks or 'Arafat I would be discussing an issue with him. I would be going (to Egypt?) For this reason. After that, we would declare, even if we were to differ, that we discussed matters with him but he was determined to continue with the enemy and that I explained and argued with him but it was no use at all and so I returned. if he is convinced, and he may become convinced and may say - between me and you, Egypt is in need of this and that, we are afraid that the Israelis might reoccupy sinai, that the Israelis might occupy the canal or occupy Egypt or do this or do that, and I have no power [to face up to them] and I have a plan to get rid of them within such a period. Thus we may reach agreement among us. But to say that the meeting should be unconditional, I do not agree. My meeting should be conditional. Once it is agreed that the meeting is conditional, I would go even to Cairo. For then I would be going to have discussions with that country and with that man and to talk with the Egyptian people, with his assembly and his government on how they could depart from stable David and I would tell them my views in the name of the revolutionary force of the Arab nation and in the name of the Arab masses in this matter and on Egypt's stance. When Egypt recognized the enemy and joined stable David, catastrophe befell the Arab nation. For the enemy then became arrogant enough to seek the destruction of the Palestine resis- tance and America also became arrogant, seeking to pit one Arab against another. Egypt's recognition of the enemy was a catas- trophe that excels all catastrophes. Why? Because that was not a peace treaty but a treaty of war: Peace in Sinai and war against Syria, Lebanon and the Palestinians. But when the war on the northern front ends, the war will return again to Sinai and to Egypt and to Libya and to the remaining Arab countries. It is definite that the stable David process was in the interest of the enemy. It is not a peace process and it is not good for Egypt, because the enemy will try to end the northern front and then return to the southern front. This is a matter which I can discuss openly and say to all Egyptians. Husni Mubarak had no good intentions by saying he was pre- pared to meet with me. Even Sadat was prepared to meet with the Arabs - to recognize [Israel] and then meet with them. This is a message which we respect [as heard] a message from someone. But let us return to the... [sentence not completed] [words indistinct] on the agenda: But listen. You are Libyans. But you are impotent even before the People's Committee for Economy. You have been com- plaining that it has increased the taxes and customs duties on us. How then can you face up to some one like Sadat who might rise, when you are unable to force the Committee for Economy to impose the prices you decide upon; nor are you able to fix these prices. Then, seeking Mu'ammar's succor is no longer possible. For I Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 V ? Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 1 V have always told you that when the masses applaud, I feel as if they are beating me on my head. I do not even like to see my picture published. As of now, I beg those responsible for the media, not to publish my picture any more either in a paper or in any other means of information. From no on publish only the picture of the people. In short, there is nothing I want from you. My colleagues and I have performed an important historical task - which was to break the shackles and our sole mission is to see that you exercise your freedom. I would intervene only when I see someone seeking to serve himself and thus reimposing the shackles on the Libyan people. I goad you on breaking the shackles. But if you were to weaken and succumb, then I would intervene and break them. The important thing is that we do not accept domination neither of the workers, of the peasants or of the students. Indeed, the teachers must be seperated from the students. The universities must be under the full control of the students through the creation of committees and congresses. Thus there would be no hegemony over students. I am against domination. If a big tribe tries to dominate a small tribe, I am prepared to give arms to the small tribe to fight until it achieves an equal footing with the big tribe. Domination is forbidden. We are fighting American domination over us at the UN Security Council and at the United Nations and its domination over us in the world. We fight all the forces that seek to impose hegemonyover us. Zionism too seeks to impose hegemony on us. We even fight man's domination of women, for men and women were created equal. Either man and woman agree and live together on equal basis and in dignity, or they should seperate. - But for a man to divorce his wife at any time he likes, or to marry at any time he likes, get angry at any time he likes and show satisfaction at any time he wants, is not correct. Women are not given the right to divorce at any time they want, or to marry at any time they want. If men have such rights for themselves, women too should have these rights for themselves. Men are given the right to marry a second wife. Thus some one comes and says this is my new wife. A woman too may come and say this is my new husband. By God, this is permitted by all religious laws and is not forbidden. This circumstance is not prohibited by any law or in any creed. It is only man's domination and tradition that dictated this [that woman cannot marry a second husband]. We could all of us withdraw in one group and not leave in the country anyone who participated in the revolution - so that no one would have the pretext of claiming to have done you a favor and telling you, I am the last remnant of those who staged the revolution and liberated you, so move out of my way - we can withdraw them all to Lebanon, Latin America or any other place so that we can affirm to you that we have no imposed succession. If I am killed tomorrow, nobody can dominate the people, for I have no deputy to succeed at all. Appointing vice presidents is a mistake.'Abd al-Nasir appointed Zakariya Muhyi al-Din to succeed him. The Egyptians who love 'Abd al-Nasir and those in the know were against him [Zakariya]. How can he impose Zakariya Muhyi al-Din? 'Abd al-Nasir said, I have resigned and leave office to my brother. How can this be? We are a nation and a people. How can we accept this? 'Abd al-Nasir chose Sadat as successor. This was a mistake. See what Sadat has done. Sadat chose Mubarak to succeed him. Perhaps tomorrow Husni Mubarak will select another person to succeed him. Thus one appoints another to succeed him. Bourguiba has appointed Mzali as a successor. One king appoints his sons as successors and his sons appoint their own sons and son on. When the Prophet Muhammad died, everything ended. The mistake was ours for we appointed a caliph to succeed him. We the Muslims appointed a successor for him. No such a thing was decreed by God. There is no such word as caliph in the Koran except that God had entrusted man to be his trustee on earth. All budgets, from my own salary to the expenditure of the people's Bureau in Rome or in India to the budget of the intelligence department must be known to you and must be approved by you. But this does not need to be publicized. If I visit a congress and this was not advertised, then it becomes a secret visit not broadcast over the radio. The same applies to the budget of the intelligence department. Discuss it without advertising and broadcasting it. The budget of the intelligence department and the number of intelligence officers and their tasks - all are matters you have to decide whether or not to disseminate. The intelligence budget must be decided without the need to publicize it. It is considered secdret in this case. For example, this is the intelligence budget, this is the intelligence [word indistinct], and this is their assignment. Do you want them or not? The day you say you do not want them (?tear up the papers) and you will saving money. Who needs the intelligence? Me? This one needs the intelligence? Search and show me who needs the service? The popular bureaus. If you want them, you run them. Fix a budget for them. Maybe someone will pour scorn on the people's (?bureau) when he sees the popular bureau give money tho this or that man [words indistinct]. Or when one sings the praises of the secretary of the people's bureau and you beg him to give you accommodation at the best hotel. Who pays for it? The people pay. It means the people are dupes. What sort of people's bureau secretary behaves like this? He buys a pair of glasses for himself or gives you a plane ticket; he puts someone else up at a hotel. You must calculate their expenses to the last cent. You ask him: How much have we transferred to you? He says 50,000. You ask him: How did you spend it? You must obtain his signature. The day you have your doubts you set up a court. See how the Arabs (?behave). Iraq assassinated the secretary of the Libyan People's Bureau in Rome. What an achievement! Afterward they destroyed the cultural center in Malta. See how absurd they have become. The glorious Arab nation. Baghdad: the den of the lions and the Qiblah of glory and eternity. This is the glory and these are the lions. They kill the secretary of the Libyan People's Bureau in Rome and they burn books in Malta. See how absurd the Arabs have become. [passage indistinct] Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7 w On the occasion (not further specified), despite the fierce (?war) between ourselves and the Egyptians as a result of their recogni- tion of the enemy or even before that, the Egyptian media has never reached the level of the Tunisian media. Never. All are agreed on this. By God, an Arab ruler, on that day, (?spoke) to me to say: How can [words indistinct]. He said tome: By God, you have nerves of steel because you kept your cool and averted a war. The words I heard from him are amazing. He said: By God, if it was me I (?would have gone to war) whatever the case. Actually, he (?would have gone to war) to destroy all the mouthpieces hostile to him. (?We) have never reached that level. But I thank the Tunisian media because they have been mobilizing the Libyan people against the Tunisian regime. (?Let) them level abuse and remain at this low level. This will make the Libyan people even more prepared for war. They are preparing the Libyan people (?for war). The same thing applies to the Iraqi media. A torrent of media attack against us will only make the Libyan people more aligned with the Iranian revolution. When the Libyan people listen to Baghdad radio, they will say: By God, you should destroy it with rockets. We must give the missiles to Iran we must fight alongside Iran as long as Iraq utters these words and stoops so low and does all this. Also, when the Libyan people listen to the Tunisian media the Libyan people harbor more hatred against the Tunisian regime. [passage indistinct] When the Tunisian officials talk politics they do not speak the language of the media; they do not utter insults. But their media? See the level they have stooped to. However, a black file must be opened for everyone in the Tunisian media whether he wrote a commentary in a newspaper, on the air, or if he said even two words. The day will come when his moustache, his tongue, and his hand which writes what he says, will be cut off. This day will come. I am giving a warning as of now. However, everyone in the Tunisian, media who has reached this level through his pen, tongue, or the commentary he reads out on radio, must be watched and monitored now. It must be noted that this or that article was written by this or that person and that the com- mentary was read by this or that person. This is because we will take revenge. With us the free men in Tunisia will take revenge. A day will come when someone will walk the street with his hand cut off. Why? It is because he wrote an article one day. One must say that when the Tunisian politicians attack us, truthfully, their attack is political: it is not on the level of their media. Despite the fact that the war between us and the Egyptians has been going on longer and more acutely, the Egyptian media has never reached the level of the Tunisian and Iraqi media. They pour insults and shout and print abusive cartoons, but they do not stoop as low as to use abuse against one's mother, father, and sister. What an absurd thing this is. [words indistinct] Also, I believe that if we attack Egypt, we should attack the treason: Camp David. As to whether Husni Mubarak or the Egyptians are good or not, this you should take out. [Words indistinct] If they are short of food supplies, and no longer have an agriculture or production, these matters concern them. This also applies to Tunisia. We have nothing to do with their domestic 4P Q 18 NORTH AFRICA issues. We attack exploitation. We expose exploitation and how they treat the workers and why the land is owned by feudalists who use the rest of the people as land slaves. We do not attack this or that state but the issues of exploitation and oppression. These we must attack. We should offer an alternative. The power, wealth, and arms must be in the peoples' hands. We should entice the emergence of the revolutionary committees everywhere and a new world green movement so that the masses are able to embark on revolution and assume power and form the popular congresses and the popular committees. Here I will say: I will not be with you [words indistinct]. You should not rely upon me and must not say: you are the cause of this or that. I am not responsible. Everything is in your hands. This time I explained more to you than I did before. If you the popular congresses failed, the popular committees have the right to act instead of you. They will become sovereign. This is written in revolutionary conference literature. Basic People's Congresses Begin 3d Ordinary Sessions LD232021 Tripoli JANA in English 1911 GMT 23 Dec 85 [Text]Tripoli, Rabi Athani 9, Dec.23, JAMAHIRIYAH NEWS AGENCY - The Basic People's Congresses all over the Social- ist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah started this evening their 3d ordinary sessions for 1395 A.M.D. which coincides with 1985 A.D. The agenda of the Basic People's Congresses for this session included the following: - Follow up of the decisions the Basic People's Congresses reached in their 3d ordinary session for 93-94 A.M.D. coinciding with 1985 A.D. which were drafted at the General People's Congress in its 10th ordinary session. =Also included in the agenda are the plan, the budget, internal policy, foreign policy, armed people, public transportation, marine transport, education, economy and oil apart from the general reports, general matters and a number of draft laws. JANA: Burkinabe Leader'on: Border Forces Withdrawal LD231845 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 1615 GMT 23 Dec 85 [Text]Tripoli, 23 Dec (JANA) =Brother leader of the revolution received a message from Captain Thomas Sankara, chairman of the National Council of the Revolution in the Jamahiriyah of Burkina Faso. Captain Sankara emphasized in his message that in response to the personal efforts of the brother leader of the revolution concerning-the borders between Burkina Faso and the Republic of Mali, the Jamahiriyah of Burkina Faso has decided to withdraw its forces from the border area with Mali. Cuban Minister of State on `Successful' Visit L-D231833 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 1615 GMT 23 Dec 85 [Text] Tripoli, 23 Dec (JANA) - Levi Balmaseda Farah, Cuban minister of state, left Tripoli this afternoon at the end of his visit to the Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah. In a statement to JANA the Cuban minister noted that his visit to the Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/02/01: CIA-RDP05-01559R000400400068-7

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